i never said they were aimed at 2pac, they were aimed at commercial gangsta rap, where in Jeru's song does he praise the west coast?

even though this is completely off topic where has Nas ever dissed 2pac by name?

I'm from the Yay Area. And I'm 23.

I've never actually heard it but I heard he said something on some mixtape somewhere which ended with "rolling over this Makaveli".. Either way Tupac was a legend to Nas.

i know people hated on gangsta rap but thats just what they were doing, hating, in some cases seemed to be out of jealousy.

so i really don't see how you read the lyrics and came to the conclusion he was praising the west coast and dissing the east. he's saying that Puffy and Suge fucked up hip hop, they got hip hop drunk and stupid and got its mind fucked up. Menace was making the point that these artists were critical of commercial gangsta rap which includes 2pac, Jeru makes reference to Suge having hip hop hostage at the end, who was on Suge Knights labe??? 2pac was.

I can't believe your 23 LMAO :rofl:, Your acting like one of my wannabe gangsta cousins. I never said the alternative scene in those areas dissed 2pac i said they CRITICIZED gangsta rap your just acting like a kid . And dude Freestyle Fellowship and the whole Hieroglyphics crew in lead whit Del tha Funkee Homosapien are legends in hip hop circles . Of course if you hang only in hip hop circles which play pop rap then of course for you they are not .

What evidence? This isn't a political debate, it's a debate about a certain group of people's view of an artist. If this were on some significant historical event we would be able to find the writings of people who experienced it, but since it is simply an opinion of an artist from during his lifetime, you aren't likely to find much evidence in any form. There weren't too many hip hop heads carrying around diaries and writing in them about how much they hated 2pac lol.

It's the same with Lil Wayne, and yes, I will continue to compare the two because the opinion is very similar (only with Wayne the hate is a little bit more vehement and justified). If all of the "Lil Wayne vs..." videos on YT got wiped out for copyright infringement and Lil Wayne got murdered tomorrow and 15 years down the line someone tried to say "man, everyone loved Lil Wayne. The real hip hop heads loved him too and you have no evidence to back up the claim that people didn't like him", you would most definitely disagree with that person and say "nah, a lot of people, especially in the "real hip hop" community hated Lil Wayne with a passion", but you would have just as much evidence to support your claim as I do mine. Dudes hated Pac when he was alive, end of story. The only evidence I need is the evidence I have: people who listened to hip hop at that time confirming my claim. If I was claiming Pac was the second coming of Christ, such a claim would need to meet a heavier burden of proof, but the claim I am making is not that significant and doesn't need to meet such a ridiculously highly standard of evidence. What do you expect, a picture of letter that states "We, the real hip hop community, join forces to show our consensus opinion that 2pac is fake, wack, and not real hip hop.", signed and dated by 150 well known real hip hop heads with all of the signees holding it?

Maybe someone should inform you that emceeing and rapping are not one in the same, oh my Great Lord ALCATRAZ (since you obviously expect our opinion of you to be that high).

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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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i think Pensmoke would probably have been somewhere in his early 20's or late teens maybe?? so i think Pensmoke would know more about how 2pac was recieved among the hip hop purist circles in those days than both of us.

lol obviously coz the internet wasn't being used back then.

You're talking to a grown man. I'm not sensitive, but I'm no shorty. I took offense to it in the same way you took offense to gramps, so take it how you want.

How do you know that, Pensmoke? Wasn't Project Pat just in the video with KRS-One when he called Lil Wayne the GREATEST OF ALL TIME?

That's your definition, and you know as well as everyone that isn't universally accepted, even in "real" hip hop circles. I consider myself a real hip hop head, and I don't acknowledge your definition of rap. Does that make me any less hip hop than you? I don't believe so.

That's all I've been saying. I'm a simple man, and I don't need to construct labels for every rapper under the sun. It would expend too much energy and like I said before, I'm just not a judgemental person in that regard. I appreciate all rap. I love "Hammer Time". It's one of my favorite rap songs, as a matter of fact.

Trust me, I understand what you're saying. You don't need to spell it out. But again, that is your definition of rap music. My personal definition is rap music is any artist who raps. That's it. I don't rank them according to how in tune with the planets they are. If you rap, you are a rapper. Fat Joe or Nelly or Bahamadia or Pac. It really doesn't make a difference to me. The marketing may vary, the point of reference and the aim of the artist may vary, but they are ALL rappers in my eyes. They all represent hip hop. Maybe not to your accord, but that's how I feel.

Don't shoot yourself in the foot before even listening to the song. Let me give you a few quotables from the song that I posted a minute ago.

All this hatred I'm hearing, though, you I ain't fearing
Better try to be growing old man, with your children
Escalade, what a nigga steering, last days nearing
Trying to get it right with God, only one who I'm fearing

Last year my cousin took a fall, a sad song
Seems like we were just on the phone, now he gone
People used to try to judge him, said he was wrong
But you can't try to judge a man, you do your own

Wondering how I survived all this foolishness
Up in the street riding dirty, I ain't new to this
I'm packin' heat, but the streets very hazardous
To niggaz health, watch your step you ain't Lazarus
You'll meet your death

Gotta take the good with the bad
Smile with the sad, love what you got
And remember what you had, messing with the ones
Who helped me in the times
When I was flat broke, didn't even have a dime
My family they was there, my niggaz they was there
The rest of ya'll left me for dead didn't care
I use to have dreams living large in this thang
and by the grace of God I'm still alive in this thang
I strive in this game to get all that I can
Never said I'm the man, respect me as a man

Either treal, either fake
You can love you can hate
Either go and get your own but you can't sit and wait
On the next man to come up, you can peep this
You can do what I do, handle your bu-si-ness

Thanks for proving my point. Check ya later, Pensmoke.

Chino XL called 2pac out by name and did Death Row do anything to Chino? hell no. don't believe everything Suge Knight says about himself, he liked to talk shit and say he did shit he never did. when dre first left death row records he once claimed he barged his way into dre's house all by himself, got past 30 police men dre hired and got dre's masters, turns that it was a load of shit.

as for there being different genre's in hip hop there are, this is the first time i've heard anyone say there are no sub genre's in hip hop, the genre is defined by its sound and style. anyone with ears can hear the difference in sound and style.

Death Row didn't but Pac's psycho fans tried to smoke Chino